Thursday, June 9, 2011

I guess I have to come clean: I'm Pro-Choice

Trust me, I take that label with a considerable amount of trepidation and even a little bit of shame.  I’ve actually held off on making a post about this because it’s such a divisive issue, and I know it’s a position on which my conservative readers and me will likely not agree.  Perhaps my libertarian peeps will, but you never know.

Anyway, let’s get one thing straight about my sentiments on abortion.  I personally think that the practice itself is barbaric and not indicative of enlightened thought.  The idea of going in, mangling a little baby, and scooping out its discernable body parts is wholly repugnant to me.  I think that abortion is justified if it is in a case of rape, incest, or if the mother’s life is in danger, but if you’re getting an abortion simply because you don’t want a child then I believe it to be completely immoral.

This is one of those Machiavellian moments where morals don’t necessarily line up with public policy.  Although the preservation of life is a good thing, and although the preservation of little potential lives is a really good thing, I’m not so sure that anti-abortion laws would be good public policy.

Man, there certainly are some hotties in
the pro-choice movement . . .

I think it has to do with reasons of privacy, as bizarre as it might sound to some.  We could say that abortion is only legal in cases of rape, incest, and danger to the mother’s life (we’ll call them the Big 3 from this point on), but that raises some nasty scenarios.  Take, for example, the folks in Indiana who were charging that if a law were passed based on that idea, then women would lie about being raped in order to get an abortion.

So what would women then have to do?  Would they have to subject themselves to some sort of panel that would determine if they had actually been raped?  Would we then conduct paternity tests on a family member if she claims the child was conceived incestuously?  Or would we then allow the doctor to decide whether or not the mother would live, deny her the abortion, and then hope that the doctor was right about her survivability?

We don’t want shit like death panels, so why would we want abortion panels?  Anti-abortion legislation would create so many contradictions about conservative assertions on the importance of privacy and the freedom of choice that baby Jesus would surely cry.

Although I think that abortions of convenience (I am not suggesting that the procedure itself is convenient or preferable to birth control) are immoral, I also think that it is wrong to presume to make that decision for a woman.  Although I hate this phrase, probably because Liberals love to chant it in abortion discussions, I also think that it’s none of my business, and certainly beyond the purview of government, to ask a woman why she is making that decision.

It should always be a don’t-ask-don’t-tell affair.  Now, am I going to be the person that donates to Planned Parenthood so women can have abortions?  No.  Although I support their right to choose, morally I can’t give my money to support the killing of a little life.  If they could all assure me somehow that it was because they were raped or were going to die, then I’d feel less conflicted about it, but they don’t need to justify themselves to me—or anyone for that matter—so it’s best that I just not ask and not donate to such a cause.

At the end of the day, this topic
makes me feel like shit.
This all might sound hypocritical or contradictory, but I can assure you that it isn’t.  There are plenty of things that are immoral but are not, and cannot, be law.  For example, adultery is morally wrong, but it’s not against the law (I know it’s law in the UCMJ, but that is not a law that everyone is subject to).  Lying is also immoral, but it’s not always against the law.

Why is this?  Because there are some perpetrations of morality for which the law is incapable of meting out legitimate and just punishment.

As controversial as this topic is, I still welcome any and all discussion on it, even if you think I’m a traitor to morality or whatever =)

11 comments:

Karen Howes said...

Okay, here's the thing: either abortion is barbaric murder of an innocent human being or it's not.

If it is not, then it's no different than surgery to remove a cyst or something.

If it is, then it should not be sanctioned by law.

There is no in-between.

Imagine you see a woman about to throw her (born) baby out a high-rise window, would you say, "Well, I personally find that horrible, but it's her business"? I doubt it-- I think you'd call the cops.

Regarding the rape exception, I thought you OPPOSED the death penalty... but you think an innocent child should be executed for the sins of his/her father?

Jack Camwell said...

Karen, you should probably know already that I wouldn't believe in some asinine idea like that. Aborting a child because it was produced through rape is not punishing the baby for the father's sins.

It's not fair to the mother who had that baby forced on her, through no fault of her own. Would you want to live with the visual reminder that someone raped you? You could always put the child up for adoption, but at the end of the day that's between you and God.

Like I said, there's no way to legislate this that wouldn't turn out to be a massive intrusion of privacy. I'm not going to be the grand arbiter of whether or not an unborn baby lives or dies. That's for the mother to decide.

Lying is immoral. Should we make it so that all lies are against the law?

How do you feel about the death penalty? I thought you were one of those who cheered at Osama's death. I know there's a difference between a convict sentenced to death and an unborn child, but in the end it's not my decision of whether they live or die.

Is euthanasia murder? Is the death penalty murder? Is it murder to abort the baby in order to save the mother's life? What if at the moment the mother goes into labor, the doctors tell the father that one of them will die. Is it murder to choose which one dies and which one doesn't?

Killing is always a bad thing, Karen, but not all killing is murder, and not all killing is unjustified. I don't think it's a good thing to abort a baby for any reason, but I also don't think it's immoral if it is done for one of the Big 3 reasons.

There is nothing in the bible that says we have to preserve life at all costs. There's nothing in the bible that says women have to give birth to rape babies.

Karen Howes said...

Jack, yes, aborting a child because he or she was conceived through rape IS making the child pay-- I don't what else you could call it. And it sure as hell is messed up to say that you don't think a murderer should die but an unborn child should.

And no, it's not fair for a woman to have a baby because she was raped. But, hell, it's not "fair" for people to be mugged or diagnosed with cancer either. Life isn't fair. And a woman who is in the situation is in need of lots of support and probably therapy.

But how exactly does murdering your child solve the problem? Does it "un-rape" you? It just compounds one tragedy on top of another. Adoption is another "choice".

By the way, fewer than 1% of abortions are due to rape... physiologically, there's something in a woman's body that tends to prevent pregnancy resulting from rape. Definitely a good thing, I'd say.

Abortion isn't about privacy, Jack. If it is, then why isn't killing a child after birth also a matter of "privacy"?

Murder is, simply, the taking of an innocent human life (which is why the execution of a murderer isn't murder). It's still immoral to kill an innocent person even if it's to save the life of someone else. Both lives are equally precious.

ickenittle post said...

Karen I applaud your passion but have one simple question to ask you.

How many unwanted children walking this Earth have you taken into your home to love?

If you have only empathy for the unborn-yet are unwilling to sacrifice your time and energy to make this world better for just one innocent child by taking them into your heart and home, you are sadly a fraud. As are far too many so-called Christian conservatives.

Why don't you step up to the plate? Do you think it is up to the rest of us to make a better world?

Rather than condemning woman for not having the means or maturity to raise a child, why don't you and others like yourself become part of the solution?

Where is your show of sisterhood in this family called humanity?

Jack Camwell said...

So if taking innocent lives is against the law, then how do you justify war? You think every life extinguished is guilty or deserves to die?

Oh right, that's just collateral damage. We didn't mean to kill them.

So is life fair and just or is it horrifying? I'm sorry Karen, but you can't believe in the doctrine of preservation of life and support the death penalty. You can't support killing and not others and still say you give a damn about the preservation of life.

I don't support abortion, and if a woman asked me what the morally right decision is I'd probably tell her not to have one. But at the end of the day it's her choice, not mine, and it's between her and whatever the hell she believes in.

Again, I'm not the judge of who gets to live or die.

Harrison said...

Basically, you are saying you are against abortion but if a woman can live with herself she should get one. I understand this and can't necessarily disagree with it.

Jack Camwell said...

Yeah that's basically what I'm saying.

Anonymous said...

The Government can tell me what to do with my body....
I’m in the army.
I do this so that people have freedom.
The freedom to live their lives.
Yes there are programs in place to help "unwanted" babies.
In Ohio you can surrender your child to a hospital without repercussion.
But the act of rape is taking away the freedom of the victim.
The freedom to look at a carnal act as a loving gesture, or as a recreational activity. (Say what you will sex is fun)
If conception is a product of that violation they then take the freedom of the victim being able to choose when they feel it is appropriate to procreate.
I personally know of 3 rape victims, one conceived.
The child never had a normal life.
No amount of therapy can extinguish the face of your violator from your child.
I personally have no issue with abortion.
I am a male and feel that I am not allowed to have an opinion.
I never really hold well to my own values in cases like these.
I leave you with a link and a quote
“When does a woman’s choice belong to her and not to man or myth?
When does a woman’s body belong to her and not to man or myth?”
BEHIND ENEMY LINES “Her body, Her decision”
http://www.plyrics.com/lyrics/behindenemylines/herbodyherdecision.html
Most of you probly don’t like punk rock. But I urge you to listen to this or at least read the lyrics.
It is heavily liberal music but I am a fan due to the fact that they sum it up well.

Bowser

Anonymous said...

The Government can tell me what to do with my body....
I’m in the army.
I do this so that people have freedom.
The freedom to live their lives.
Yes there are programs in place to help "unwanted" babies.
In Ohio you can surrender your child to a hospital without repercussion.
But the act of rape is taking away the freedom of the victim.
The freedom to look at a carnal act as a loving gesture, or as a recreational activity. (Say what you will sex is fun)
If conception is a product of that violation they then take the freedom of the victim being able to choose when they feel it is appropriate to procreate.
I personally know of 3 rape victims, one conceived.
The child never had a normal life.
No amount of therapy can extinguish the face of your violator from your child.
I personally have no issue with abortion.
I am a male and feel that I am not allowed to have an opinion.
I never really hold well to my own values in cases like these.
I leave you with a link and a quote
“When does a woman’s choice belong to her and not to man or myth?
When does a woman’s body belong to her and not to man or myth?”
BEHIND ENEMY LINES “Her body, Her decision”
http://www.plyrics.com/lyrics/behindenemylines/herbodyherdecision.html
Most of you probly don’t like punk rock. But I urge you to listen to this or at least read the lyrics.
It is heavily liberal music but I am a fan due to the fact that they sum it up well.

Bowser

Anonymous said...

We discussed this at length in the Charlie Bravo.

Here is the deal:

It is not an issue for the Federal Government.

I have a very strong moral conviction against abortion, because in nearly every case it is the stupidity of people that allow unplanned pregnancies into their lives. My cousin has 2 kids out of wedlock from the same father, who hasn't supported her in any way. I told my cousin point blank "Your choices brought this on yourself, and now you must be prepared to face the consequences of conscience or the consequences of responsibility." She didn't like that much.


The harsh truth of all this is yes, you are terminating a life before it has a chance to really live, however the choice ultimately does lie with the woman, in a free society where people should have options this is the only sane, yet regrettable policy to adopt.

I am as Libertarian as you can get without crossing into the realm of Anarchy, the law is clear. The government and society in general has no say.

Jack Camwell said...

You both make very good points, and I'm not just saying that because I agree with them. Bowser, that was a very logical explanation of the rape situation, and I applaud you for it.

Doog, one phrase you mentioned sort of brings all of this to a head "The harsh truth of all this . . ."

That's something that we, as a people, have to learn to understand and accept.