Wednesday, November 28, 2012

Interesting Note on Voter Fraud

So I've been job coaching a client of mine at a place that does community activism for immigrants and refugees.  They help people reunite with their families, they aid them in the immigration process (which can take upwards of 10 years, by the way), and work with them on finding jobs and the like.  While my client was helping them sort out their budget, I overheard one of the attorneys talking to his client.

His client, who confirmed that he is not a U.S. citizen, informed the attorney that he registered to vote.  The attorney sounded flabbergasted.  "Are you a U.S. citizen?"

"No," the guy replied.  He was of some sort of Latin heritage.

"Well how were you even able to register if you couldn't prove your citizenship?"

"I don't know," he replied.  "I just filled out the card and then got something in the mail telling me where to vote."

I don't really know why this came up in their conversation, but it did.  The attorney was in awe that the guy was able to register to vote, and he was extremely worried because his client--if caught--could possibly be pinched for voter fraud.

Fortunately, his client said that he did not, in fact, go vote.  The client sounded really worried about it all, so I'll just err on the side of optimism and say that he was telling the truth.  Even though he didn't vote, what the hell does this say about the voter registration process?  There was a worry that non-citizens were voting--I think the worry being that they were voting under aliases or whatever--but this seems to be a bit more unsettling.

You don't even need an alias to commit voter fraud.  It would be very interesting to see just how this guy was able to register without any red flags going off.  What's more, if he had voted, who's to say he would have been caught?  Wht would prompt anyone to look at a registered voter's name--someone who is alive and proved his identity by the address he gave them (ha)--and just get an inkling that maybe he was not a U.S. citizen?

To Democrats: I know you all like to pretend that voter fraud doesn't happen, or doesn't happen on a meaningful scale, but let's be honest: if you thought the Republicans were committing voter fraud, you'd be allover it as well.  Many Democrats always point to the fact that there's not been many proven cases of voter fraud.  That's pretty laughable seeing as how the whole point of committing fraud is to get away with something without being caught

It's sort of like saying that just because we can't prove that mafia money is dirty, that must mean they don't have any dirty money, like we've never even heard of the concept of money laundering.

I know that many Democrats want to go on believing that their party is the party of honesty, justice, and all those other warm-and-fuzzy words.  But the truth of the matter is that a Democrat is just as dirty as a Republican.  If we could only expose their corruption to the light of day, I'm sure that many Blue Dogs would vomit uncontrollably for a couple of hours.

The takeaway from this should be that we should stop pretending like there are many--if any--politicians who are actual bastions of virtue and integrity.  I know of one so far, and he's retiring.


Jersey McJones said...

The difference between the Democrats and the Republicans is that the Democrats sometimes actually try to do the right thing while Republicans never bother at all.


Joe Markowitz said...

As your story illustrates, it's not difficult to register, but showing up to vote is quite another matter. The reason that voter fraud by undocumented aliens hardly ever happens is the fear of getting caught. Think about it. How could voting possibly be worthwhile for you if you were in this country illegally? The risks are much too great.

And why would either party risk rounding up non-citizens to vote when there are so many available citizens who are eligible to register and vote?

The problem we have in this country is low voter turnout. Voter fraud is not a significant problem.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, it's really Candidate Fraud we should be worried about.

Also that's a hell of a statement Jersey.

KP said...

<< Think about it. How could voting possibly be worthwhile for you if you were in this country illegally? The risks are much too great. >>

I get it; like the risk Petraeus took to get laid by the Amazon. Nothing bad could happen to him. Or the third strike felony that sends you to jail for life. Or the shoplifting that is all too common place. Or DUIs. Or illegals driving without a license and insurance. Or gang crime. Or drug use. Dopers in sport. I could go on forever. The common thread is that only a fraction of cheaters and law breakers get caught. We are all surrounded by liars and cheats and don't even know it.

Joe Markowitz said...

If you risk your career to get laid, at least you got laid. But why would you risk your ability to remain in this country and provide for your family just to vote? Nobody gets anything for voting.

Jersey McJones said...

KP, c'mon man, you know Joe is right. So does Jack. Sure, there may be a few people out there personally taking the risk to cast a vote here or there.

But to affect any significant let alone national or presidential election, you'd have to have one hell of a conspiracy to get that many people to take that much risk and ensure not a soul got caught or let it be known.

It's one of those "get real," "ain't gonna happen," "yeah right," kind of things, when you think about it.

Besides, there are real election problems out there in America that really do affect outcomes, and domino into higher offices.

This "issue" (alien voting) strikes me as a diversion - a real "conspiracy" though as mundane as usual: a class of people have decided to attack another class of people. (Hint: It's a Fox News demographic.)

The GOP realizes that to win elections, they must suppress all those whom they've wronged over the years - the elderly, minorities, the working class, women, students, and the sick.

And Jack, that's what bothers me about this whole post. Who the hell cares? Really? In the grand scheme of things, your anecdote means so little, and meanwhile real, serious, crazy, dangerous attacks on our republican (small "r") way of life go on unabated.

Citizens United, anyone?!?!

Oh no! There's NO instate commerce going on there, right?!?!

Get real.


Silverfiddle said...

Yeah Get Real! Like Joisey!

What a bunch of blabbering bluster, as usual from Jersey.

Motor Voter laws are how this happens. You go get a drivers license or any other interaction with your state government and you are automatically registered by the apple-shaped Democrat party, government employee union state worker.

An non-citizen may not know that he or she cannot legally vote.

Our attorney general here in Colorado found hundreds of such cases. No jackboots pounding on immigrants' doors, he simply sent out letters telling them they were registered and informing them that if they were not a US citizen they needed to remove themselves from the rolls. He received letters of apology from many, stating that they had not voted and that they did not know they were registered.

This is the Democrats' fault. They consistently block sensible voter registration and voter ID laws. We've got to ask ourselves why would supposedly responsible people do that?

Over to you, Jersey McBlather...

Silverfiddle said...

@ Jersey: "The GOP realizes that to win elections, they must suppress all those whom they've wronged over the years - the elderly, minorities, the working class, women, students, and the sick."

Hey blowhard, the elderly and working class vote GOP, and unless you have a statistic on how "the sick" vote, you're full of it, as usual.

Joe Markowitz said...

Did you know that in North Dakota you are not even required to register to vote at all? You just show up on election day and vote. What a concept. Must be the Democrats' fault. North Dakota is known for being a hotbed of liberal ideas.

Jack Camwell said...


I don't watch Fox News, nor do I give a damn whether or not the Republicans win.

What I do give a damn about is how people are so willing to turn a blind eye to what they know to be true.

You honestly think that voter fraud doesn't happen, and that it's not meaningful?

Sure, voter fraud probably doesn't play any meaningful role in say, the presidential election. But there's a lot more at stake than that. How many smaller elected positions get screwed out because of it? Oh, well that guy was just running for city council. Who cares if he got cheated out of it?

Some years ago, I never would have believed you if you told me that the U.S. government sanctioned the torture of our prisoners. I gave up the delusion of honest politicians a long time ago. 99% of the fools on Capital Hill are in it for one thing and one thing only: their political career.

It's not a distraction. Calling this a "class vs class" thing, or saying that the voter fraud accusations are "scare tactics" and racially motivated--THOSE are distractions.

When I went to vote, all they wanted from me was something with my name and address on it. An electric bill, or something to that effect. My former neighbors moved a few months ago, and some of their mail still comes to my house. What's to stop me from impersonating my neighbor at the poll? Two things: integrity and the fact that I don't know for sure if she was registered to vote.

And Joe, voter registration exists for a reason: because humans can't be trusted to do the right thing. Historically, the Democrats practically wrote the book on rigging elections and voter fraud. Chicago doesn't have a notorious reputation for nothing.

FreeThinke said...

Hello, Jack.

Just wanted you to know I'm looking in on you.

In the several states where I have lived valid identification has always been required in order to vote. I've been around a long time, and this has always been the case as far back as I remember.

Why this should be considered controversial in anyone's mind I cannot imagine, unless they fully support the right of anyone -- citizen or not -- who happens to be present on the scene to vote anywhere -- and as often -- as they like.

Where I live it is impossible to get a driver's license -- or even get your license of longstanding RENEWED -- without presenting A) your BIRTH CERTIFICATE, B) two OTHER forms of identification that prove conclusively that you live where you say you live. Things like a PASSPORT, copies of your utility bills, your mortgage payments, your property tax records, your insurance bills, etc.

As a "natural-born" American citizen, who entered this life in 1941, I resented these new requirements, and found them to be an imposition. After all, I've had a perfectly legal driver's license continuously since 1958, and a perfectly clean record.

HOWEVER, this is what the presence of vast numbers of illegal immigrants -- and the myriad kinds of fraud their very existence perpetrates everywhere -- has forced upon us.

If we didn't impose these Draconian requirements on citizens already in good standing, Democratic activists would see to it in a heartbeat that hordes of these illegal residents were persuaded, seduced, or bribed then bussed or otherwise "escorted" to as many different polling places they could get to from dawn to dusk to vote for DEMOCRATS.

If republicans want to "suppress" anyone from voting, it would be these vicious, highly organized demothugs who think it a "moral imperative" to lie, cheat, steal or kill their way to victory.

Marxian-Socialist-Liberal-Progressive-Statists are so firmly convinced of the RECTITUDE of their ATTITUDES they truly believe "the ends justify the means."

This is why Conservatives, who are not a minority, most often lose. It is not in their nature to CHEAT.

I don't know about libertarians. Too many atheists in that crowd. If you don't believe in God, what's to stop you from doing anything you think you can get away with?

~ FreeThinke

Silverfiddle said...

@ Joe: A witty jape, but North Dakota's laws, if what you say is accurate, are a reflection of their society, which probably experiences less turnover and moving in and out than sunnier climes.

Nonetheless, such trusting systems are a vestige of a bygone era and ripe for fraud, since as Jack says, "because humans can't be trusted to do the right thing."

As a libertarian, I can not whether someone does "the right thing" in his or her own life, but for public civic duties like voting, we require laws to keep the system as honest as possible.

Like my Drill Sergeant told us in basic training, "Locks are for honest people."

KP said...

<< But why would you risk your ability to remain in this country and provide for your family just to vote? >

That is laughable. You live in Los Angeles. It is a sanctuary for illegals. You can be pulled over in your car with no license or insurance, be illegal and have nothing happen to you. You, of all people, know better. Please stop the charade. It is the same charade progressives use when they cry 'racism and war on women' when Rice gets criticized. Which Rice, you ask? The liberal one of course!! Nobody criued racism when Condi got pummeled.

Jersey McJones said...

"You honestly think that voter fraud doesn't happen, and that it's not meaningful?"


If by "voter fraud" you solely mean people who personally cast their vote illegally, than YES. Of course. It's hard enough to get a legal voter out to vote, why the f'n hell would anyone else?

Yes, in some local contests, quite a few, around the country, this can often happen, always has. But at the the upper echelons, with today's media, it's just impossible to get away with such a conspiracy.

Now, if with "voter fraud" you include all the possible horseplay around an election, that's another story - or should I say thousands of stories every cycle.

And when you look at all that, you see horseplay going on mostly internecine, sometimes beyond, but rarely over-the-top. There were a few over-the-tops this cycle, but nothing significant.


KP said...

JMJ, I understand that there are different kinds of voter fraud. Try and understand, it all really bothers me. I place high value on MY vote. Living in California, my vote is often symbolic. Why? Because if I don't vote as an uber liberal my candidate or position will lose. I can live with that. But I don't live comfortably with cavalier attitudes about sanctuary cities, illegal activities, assuming identities, fake DMV records, fake social services, dead people voting, dead people collecting social security, crime by illegals going unprosecuted, voter fraud and on and on. It undermines the credibility in our system of government.

I am a law abiding citizen, but I will be honest, I feel like I am being pushed around. I feel like I do things right but that too many others are using the system, which means they are using me. I am starting to feel like a chump. When enough of the bedrock of our communities and states start to feel like chumps our actions will change. It's like living with a spouse that is cheating on you. Something is going to give.

Anybody with an understanding of human relationships will tell you there must be trust. Think of it this way: a table needs four legs to be solid and most useful; to have a foundation. If you remove one of the legs (trust) the relationship is not going to last. Now let me bring it back to me and voting. I no longer trust our system. You can either laugh at me or you can help me address my lack of trust by helping me make changes that ensure trust in our political system and election of officials.

Sanctuary cities like Los Angeles do not ensure trust. Nor does a city run like Chicago. The fact that so many liberals are enamored with LA and the Windy City is troubling to me. There are many of us, who are more independent than far left or right that don't want to play for those teams. They feel slimy. The two mayors are slimy.

Even if I am wrong, you and Joe should be interested in making changes to our voting system that ensure trust that has been lost. If that does not happen, you risk people saying, f*ck it, I gotta watch out for me. That's when laws are skirted and black markets flourish. There is already too much of that.

Jersey McJones said...

KP, if you'd be happy with strict voter ID laws there's an easy way to make it work - free ID. Otherwise, you'd be espousing a poll tax, and certainly, knowing you, you wouldn't espouse such a thing. ;)


KP said...

Sounds like we are in agreement. Not surprising.

Jersey McJones said...

You're a good person, KP.