Thursday, December 20, 2012

Political Realities: Gun Control Perspectives

Check me out on Political Realities today.  I figured that I should stop being such a slap-ass and actually contribute something worthwhile to Larry Jackson's wonderful piece of internet space.

In the article, I talk about how the word "defeatist" is being thrown around to describe me and others who feel the same as I do.

I think it's worth a read!

6 comments:

Jersey McJones said...

But you are being defeatist. There's no other way to see it. You're saying there is simply nothing we can do when it comes to the availability and lethality of the public armament. It's like saying, "Well, we have freedom of speech, so there's nothing we can about the crazy person screaming fuck you at every little kid that walks by his house." Or like saying, "We have freedom of religion,so there's nothing we can do about the human sacrifice cult."

It's just dogmatic insanity.

JMJ

Jersey McJones said...

Look man, I used to be on the fence about the Death Penalty for many years. I heard every argument over a long time on the subject. I wasn't always happy with what I heard.

In the end, I realized that it was a bad idea to allow a government to kill any citizen, and that there could only be imprisonment, humanely, for the sake of those wrongly convicted by a jury of their peers.

I think, Jack, that you are being the dogmatic one here. I'm saying, "Hey guys, have your guns, just please be responsible with them," and you think I'm saying, "Gimme your guns, you're all too stupid for them."

Please, believe me, the majority of Americans, like me, don't have a problem with responsible people owning guns, and we're mostly glad they do!

We just ask for the accountability of those guns.

ACCOUNTABILITY

JMJ

Jack Camwell said...

Jersey,

By now you should know that being dogmatic really isn't my style. I could care less what the NRA says, or what Conservatives say, or whatever.

This isn't about dogma, for me. I'm not bringing up "talking points," because I don't listen to the talking points, at least not the talking points on "my side" of the argument.

For a moment, let's pretend that the 2nd amendment doesn't exist, that way you can understand that the words in the constitution are meaningless to me in this discussion.

I am arguing this point on the basis of logic and what I understand and believe about human nature. There are millions of good people out there who own guns. My good friend, the Anonymous Howard Beale, owns several. Every person that I've ever known who owns a gun, I've known to be responsible adults who will not likely snap one day and go off the deep end.

The problem I have is that some people, maybe not you, want to significantly curtail their gun owning options. For example, you said that you want to ban semi-automatic weapons. Perhaps you meant semi-automatic rifles--but that's not what you said. That's not what people on your side of the fence are saying today (at least not according to Huffpo).

Banning semi-automatic weapons would mean that we'd ban nearly every gun in existence in the states. I have a *serious* problem with that, not on constitutional grounds, but on the grounds of plain decency. Why should the government limit MY options of gun ownership simply because some nut-job went on a rampage?

And honestly, I think that we should go ahead and put whatever extra regulations on guns we can. It really makes no logistical difference to me, because I don't own a gun and I don't plan on buying one in the near future. It's just too expensive to get what I really want. I agree that we can be WAY smarter about how we control such a dangerous item in this country.

BUT

My point is that in the end, it will all come to little avail. The notion that these efforts would some how make society safer is ludicrous to me. COnsider the statistics. A lot of gun homicides committed are done either during the comission of another crime or gang violence. These are people who are already committed to using the guns for nefarious purposes. How many gang members do you think have their guns REGISTERED? What will stricter gun laws do to take already off-the-books guns off the streets?

WHat will those extra laws do to stop someone with no history of mental illness and no criminal record from buying a gun--legally--and using it for his own nefarious purposes?

What will the regulations do to stop a psychopath from STEALING someone else's gun and going on a rampage? The idea that the extra regulations will somehow mitigate the horror is ridiculous to me.

It's a fantasy, Jersey. Columbine happened while the assault rifle ban was still on the books.

Jack Camwell said...

And what is equally ridiculous is this idea that 3 guys who are clearly batshit crazy somehow represent all of American society.

"Society is sick," some people say. Really? I thought that just the .00000001% who are mentally ill with violent tendencies were sick. I'm not sick.

People want to blame entertainment. "Violent games and movies are the problem!" Really? For every 1 psychopath that goes off the deep end and murders a bunch of people, there's 50 million people who don't. I'm a child of the 80's. My dad let me watch PREDATOR when I was like, 6. I've been exposed to violent movies and games since I was a child.

But I'm not a maladjusted adult. I'm not going to flip out and kill people. I'm not a violent person in the least. So why is it that we say "violent entertainment is the problem," when 98% of the people exposed to it aren't violent?

This is not dogma, Jersey. This is just plain common sense. You're going to believe whatever you're going to believe, but the future will vindicate my position. History has already vindicated my position.

You and others need to come to the realization that it all truly is hopeless. Does that mean we just give up? No. But let's not kid ourselves about the efficacy of law and order. A society is only as lawful as its people choose to be.

If the gun control nuts had it their way (I use gun control nuts disparagingly, because I'm often called a "gun nut" despite not owning any guns), then this is what will happen.

We'll ban semi-automatic weapons. Then, some guy loses his shit, and he gets his hands on a pump action shot-gun, loads up some buck shot, saws off the barrel. Then he goes into like, a church on a sunday, and starts blowing away everyone. MASS devestation, because a sawed off shotgun is pretty nasty.

Then everyone gets into an uproar, and next we want to ban all sawed-off shotguns. Well then people realized that's already illegal, so then everyone says "let's ban all the shotguns!"

Then we ban all the shotguns.

Then some guy finds out that his wife is regularly getting gang-banged by all of his friends. He grabs the Baretta M9 that he bought LEGALLY, and then blows his friends, his wife, and like 3 other people away with it. Then we'll say, "well we need to ban all hand guns."

Then we ban all hand guns.

Then, one day, after all the gun bans, we hear about a drive-by shooting perpetrated by some gang member. Then we'll say "but we banned all the guns. How did they have guns in the first place?" Then we hear about another guy who goes off the deep end, illegally obtains a gun, and shoots up another school full of children.

Then, and only then, will the gun control nuts realize that they've done nothing to curb the violence. And then society will be in a fever pitch because they'll realize just how helpless they are.

My point is not dogmatic, it's a philosophical point.

Jersey McJones said...

Jack,

Again. Please. Take it easy.

Your argument is that the government can take your gun away if they happen to know you have it.

I would argue that no matter what the government did, there'd still be a lot of weapons floating illegally around. And I'm correct about that and you agree with that.

So then, I, or any other well-adjusted adult human, would ask, "Well, who's producing all the guns on the streets of America today?"

And then we get into that blurry area of "conservative thought" - regulation of society.

It all seems so easy to live in a civil society. It's all so convenient, until something bothers you. Then it's a problem. Like when any idiot can get his hands on easy guns - like video game controls. Idiocy.

We need to maintain a well regulated militia, because what we have today is Stupid Fuckin Ya-hoo Circus.

JMJ

FreeThinke said...

I hope you have a very MERRY CHRISTMAS, Jack!


You too, Jersey, even if you are both infidels ;-)